Tiger Stadium
Once the ol' Mich&Trum site is cleared, why don't they do what Baltimore did and what Philly will do to their stadium sites? They built a harbor surrounded by shops, bars and museums. The same can be done here. It'll be great for Corktown and the rest of the metro area. Go to philly.com to read about the plans for the Spectrum site and imagine that happening here.
Burdened by the past....
But maybe Detroit isn't so crazy? All one needs to do is look at the renovated facades on Woodward that used to be abandoned and crumbling. Let's also not forget what's happening on Washington Blvd with those once abandoned hotels...
Burdened by the past....
Great article, However, you should have ended with "Well said, Jon", not JP....because JP is reserved for still another unforgettable Detroit icon, named McCarthy!
Different market or different customer?
Detroit 3 not good at small cars?
My 2004 Dodge Neon gets 36 mpg and easily cruises 90 mph on Detroit freeways. This vehicle has been to the dealer once since I purchased it.
Why no mention of the famous Toyota engine oil sludging recall? Do Toyota buyers pay "additional dealer markup" for that option?
Daniel Howes blog
Detroit's Big 3 were blown away by Jennifer Granholm's economic plan for Michigan - just like Pfizer, Comerica, etc.............
Friends can guarantee at least 200,000 miles from a Toyota? They must not know about the Toyota engine oil sludging fiasco.
Different market or different customer?
I've already decided to buy American next, even if that day is in the future at some point. It may be little or no help now but it's the best that I can do.
As to how it got as bad as it is for the Detroit 3, my situation may be a microcosm for the reason. You see, I am not a big truck kind of guy. I never have been. I wouldn't buy a Hummer or a Tahoe or Silverado today, ten years ago or ever. It's not because I hate GM or the UAW but because I don't like driving big gas guzzlers. I was like this when gasoline was $1.05 per gallon. I'm more of a small car type. I bought Saturn when SL1s and SC2s were built in Spring Hill, TN and it wasn't just another car company. I was able to get 32 mpg with them and it cost me all of $12 or $13 to fill up. I really liked that because I was conserving.
The long tale of how I got to buy Toyotas is complicated and I won't bore you with it but, suffice it to say that I got a Corolla that drove great, never had any trouble and I got the mpg up to 36 during the summer. I was in love. You can't get that from Detroit.
Regardless of their entry in to big trucks and SUVs, Toyota is a small car company. They do it very well which is why I buy Toyotas. It's not because I'm doing it to 'give the finger to the UAW' as I've heard some Detroit 3 guys emote. Rather, it's because GM, Ford and Chrysler aren't very good at small cars and they never have been. That was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt when GM turned Saturn in to just another car company.
This is the thing that the Detroit 3 don't get. There are some who like small cars. We like getting good mileage. We aren't enamored of the idea that the bigger the vehicle and the higher up we ride, the better. I've never been comfortable with all of these humongous trucks and SUVs careening all over the place.
So, I'll buy American as soon as I can but I'm not interested in 17 mpg (if you're lucky) and the barest minimum that I'll accept is, surprise, 32 so it definitely will not be an SUV or a pickup truck where the big profits are. I'm pretty sure that GM or Ford won't make a lot of money from the sale when I buy, but this is the "new market". A lot of the new members of this new market aren't here by choice but let's not open up that wound.
Of course, it's not really a new market. We've always been here, it's just new to the Detroit 3 because until now, small car lovers were just too cheap or too poor or tree hugging whackos not to be taken seriously. We were laughed at with derision by the American car companies and that is one big reason why Toyota and Honda get our business. They don't laugh at us, they take our needs seriously and they deliver. What a concept! I hope that the Detroit 3 will do the same, and soon because we won't be looking for a new pickup truck with a Hemi. We never have been.
New
Daniel -
Background: We left Michigan a couple of years ago because we had to - we'd love to return.
The Set-up: We need a new car. The engine in our 1998 Mercury died last winter after 130,000 miles - not great longevity, but OK. Our hand-me-down 1997 Buick has major issues but still runs at 121,000 miles.
The Dilema: We'd like to buy an "American" car (i.e. GM, Ford or Chrysler) but I cringe everytime I think about my dollars going a company that wants to take away my choice in health care, then to UAW employees, then to the UAW itself, then to Jennifer Granholm, Mark Brewer and Company, who then make our return to Michigan impossible. So we do nothing.
Commentary: What a sad commentary that buying decisions have come to this, so complicated.
Conclusion: Hand me the Toyota, please? Should I settle for such an unloyal choice? Oh well, my friends guarantee I'll get at least 200,000 miles before a major repair.
Detroit's deepening woe: How bad it is, and how did it get this way?
I always hate the "Why don't the big three have fuel efficient cars like Honda & Toyota?" question. The reason people ask that question is partially the reason the Detroit 3 don't have more. The answer is as much an issue of brand identification as it is a matter of needing the hefty profits to enable a bad business model. The truth is that the Detroit 3 do have fuel efficient vehicles and have had plenty of them for a long time. For much the same reasons people go to Sears to buy tools and appliances, but not so much high-end clothing, people go to the Detroit 3 to buy trucks and not so much for economy cars. Certain customers go to certain retailers for different types of goods and changing the brand is not an easy thing to do. The Detroit 3 should have made more of an effort to do this, but it was more than a business model that needed to change. It was a brand as well. Honda & Toyota's overall fuel economy has benefitted by the fact that they were not the predominant truck brands. The latter company made huge effort in San Antonio recently to try and change that. .
New York Meeting
In playing the blame game lets not forget the American car dealers. Their salesmen manage to live up to every negative stereotype that there is amout them. For example, I was interested in buying a Kia Rondo but was afraid to do so because the car is sold by a local Ford dealership with a shoddy reputation for service.
The sales experience my wife had when she recently bought a Toyota Camry could not have been better. My daughter on the other hand, was interested in buying a Chrysler minivan and ended up walking out of the showroom because all she got out of the salesman was double talk.
I also do not understand Ford styling. They use an upside down hair comb as the inspiration for the Mercury grill, a 1948 Ford truck grill for the Fusion, Flex, and Sable, and the Mini as the styling model for the Flex. In addition, they wonder why the Explorer is not selling after the Firestone tire fiasco.
In my opinion Lutz has been over hyped. His advanced age and his attitude about global worming explains much about GMs failure to anticipate today's car market.
As for Chrysler, the Crossfire was a dog yet they modeled their sedans afer it. I don't get it.
Felston
Region should not pay for 'Detroit's self-inflicted problems'
I agree! Let Detroit control it's own destiny, but without the tax dollars from the rest of the state. They want to expand Cobo for the auto show.The way things are going for the Big 3, they won't need the space they have. Why not just move it to the new Rock center in Novi? If suburbanites money is needed put the auto show in the suburbs! Detroit is a mess and throwing more tax dollars to it is unfair to the rest of the state.34% of ALL state taxes go to Detroit,Pontiac and Flint. It's time to pull the plug and allow these cities to sink or swim!
Daniel Howes blog of Mon., June 30
The "deepening woes" don't surprise me. I still remember an interview in the early 1980's with Lee Iacocca, in which he was asked his views on whether he was concerned by the invasion of Japanese cars. His response, which was probably similar to that of other American executives, was that the Japanese were nothing to be concerned about. Also, being from Flint, and because in my work I represented workers compensation claimants, I had occasion to go to the Buick union hall. They had a sign at their parking lot that "no foreign cars allowed." I, even then, felt that the emphasis was misplaced. It should have been to improve your own product, and not to try to keep possibly superior products from other countries creating competition with the American brands.
cspud32@sbcglobal.net 810-938-7761
Detroit Automaker's Woes--This is not your Mother's Saturn
Is GM's Brand Menagerie Really not much of a Concern?
GM and Ford's past inadequate top management has been the biggest concern over the years as I comment on below. However we cannot consider the divisional menagerie at GM to be a minor concern with little effect on GM's fortunes.
The fact is that the confusion and fracturing of advertising and marketing that these divisions create weakens the impact of the message to consumers. That's why Saturn which is offering some darn good products today (finally)---can't seem to gain traction---People don't want to be seen driving a vehicle with a Saturn label on it. Yes the multiple messages confuse---that's why simplicity will help GM--with less divisions a focus can occur on individual products---not platefuls of essentially the same products marketed like soap.
The fact is that use of these multiple divisions to sell vehicles illustrates a lack of respect for the customer because it helps foster a series of vehicles that tend toward mediocrity or are unfocused.
As Strategic Vision Vice President Daniel Gorrell has stated:
"People don't buy vehicles from brands they don't trust."
What this numbers-driven GM strategy leads to is a set of quite similar vehicles that are sold as though they are really different, thus disrespecting the customer. GM therefore is really still in the soap selling mode (different packaging, similar product) and the reason they are in the soap selling mode is because they have so many divisions, and the reason they have so many divisions is because at one time these divisions had many different characteristics like different engines and packaging and significantly different price points, and made sense in a world where GM held 50% of the market. As competition grew fierce over the last 30+ years GM did not reduce or consolidate divisions as needed, it simply kept trying to package each vehicle a little differently so that the public would buy it. Yes, they did, but only for so long because the character of a vehicle is missing as you spread it out among four or more supposedly different divisions. Thus GM massively disrespects their customer.
Advertising for these different versions cannot therefore claim anything deeply unique and must be spread among multiple vehicles often with the same body, transmission, suspension, and engine thus diluting the advertising impact among different models that aren't really much different from each other! According to consultant Steve Saxty, Honda and Toyota spend $300 less per vehicle on advertising costs than the average vehicle maker. Yes fewer divisions can help.
The confusion that occurs over what each division really stands for not only effects the customer it also effects the bewildered product planners that must deal with this nonsense. Lets look at this another way: If GM is so convinced that its many divisions are a big advantage over its competition, why doesn't GM introduce even more divisions and "division" its way out of its problems?
Ultimately the concerns at GM or Ford almost always point the fingers at a top management and a board insulated and refusing to recognize reality and tackle the problems. And those problems include a refusal to rationalize a product portfolio of multiple brands that stopped making sense in the late 1950s. Yep it took 50 years to bring GM to its knees but even mighty oaks will fall. GM still has a chance but it better get its business plan on target and fast!
Yes the Detroit automakers have taken the easy way out for the last few decades. They never really learned the lessons that Toyota or Honda could have taught them. Lessons about quality, efficiency, passion for product, the primacy and synergy of rigorous engineering, and about acting like a global company and using all your resources to compete! Detroit automakers made enough changes over the past few decades to keep afloat but never really learned how to compete, as their mouthpieces continued to babble about the fact that they were "moving forward." They are still struggling with slow moving bureaucracies, middle management malaise, multiple divisions (although Ford has got Religion on this last point and is actively eliminating the extraneous brands), slow decision making, etc.... Is Detroit and its automakers now synonymous for "Horribly broken and dysfunctional?"
Ford and GM's solid European vehicles could have been slowly introduced to the US market over the years, building a groundswell, but poor long term strategies, a focus on short term profits, the socialist/communist agreements that management forged with the UAW, sloppy manufacturing, etc., did not allow for the flexibility to compete as needed. Look at the Ford Focus and how a winning model in Europe was brought over and offered US customers plenty of quality glitches through Ford's bumbling mismanagement, and then how Ford refused yet again to update our US Focus when the new European model emerged overseas! Astonishing! Inept! A real Can't Do American Attitude. Looks like Mulally is changing that. Lets hope so.
Yes our government could have helped push the Detroit automakers to go global and thus offer a more balanced lineup here in USA, by increasing mpg rules or taxing gasoline. And the government, and oil speculators, and environmentalists, and the public will all be on the back of automakers now, demanding a more rational line of vehicles. Consumers will see how much fun or at least satisfying a more fuel efficient vehicle will be. These will not be dark days for customers but they will make or break Detroit Automakers. Detroit has again and again resisted change but now they have to actually change or die.
Tipping Point
Good column. Another question. How long will Detroit have two major newspapers? What with all the buyouts in the last two years one wonders how long both the News and Freep will be around. Hope you stay around, though Daniel. We need a guy like you that's tough.
Detroit Automaker's Woes--This is not your Mother's Saturn
Hmm. People are harping on the divisions and models, but GM's main problem is not marketing at all.
The difference between the US and Japanese (or European) makers is their focus. GM and Ford are focused on profits, and the product is just a means to an end. The Japanese are concerned with making a good product first, and profits follow from that.
After decades of taking the easy route (model cloning, obese SUVs, etc), the Detroit makers are reaping the fruits - consumers don't trust that a GM/Ford/Chrysler car is going to perform as well as a Toyota/Honda/Hyundai/etc.
The worst part, to me, is how similar this situation is to the 1970's oil shock period. Detroit got spanked once, but eventually forgot those lessons, depended on easy truck profits, and now they are getting spanked again.
It's ironic that Opel and Ford-Europe make decent, competitive cars. I guess that method of success doesn't feed back to the US operations.
Of course, the US govt must share the blame, for not forcing/encouraging fuel efficiency, and spoiling the corporations and the public. Japan and Europe make efficient cars because gas is much more expensive there, and that's because the gas taxes are much higher (not just because people there are more altruistic).
Anyway, now consumers and workers are paying the price for our long years of denying reality.
Detroit Automaker's Woes--This is not your Mother's Saturn
What a depressing scenario from the New York seminar. May I add to the pall? In today's front page Wall Street Journal article the author claims that GM executives are confounded by the fact that Saturn's sales have hardly moved after all GM's efforts introducing cool new products. To help these confounded GM executives (and some board members) understand their own company, here's what's wrong with keeping and trying to fix GM's damaged brands, such as Saturn: Selling cool new vehicles from a Saturn Dealer and with a Saturn nameplate affixed to them is like selling fine Armani Suits from Floyd's Vegetable Processing Plant Warehouse where your cool new threads are delivered with a protective potato sack covering them! GM has already damaged the Saturn brand through past neglect of product and can't easily sell these vehicles now because people don't want to drive a vehicle without a solid reputation-- and vehicle reputations are something that GM has specialized in destroying. People today associate Saturn with boring underdeveloped economy cars and don't want to drive a vehicle with that image. GM is essentially making the same mistake it made with Oldsmobile--trying to fix a damaged brand. Remember the absurd advertising that claimed, "This is not your Father's Oldsmobile?" Well, GM is creating the same type of ads when it claims that we need to "Rethink" Saturn. Yes, today's Saturn ads are more polished but are still trying to fix the brand. What's next---"This is not your Mother's Saturn?"
Like a giant vortex GM's past mistakes are pulling the company down. Today, with multiple, often redundant divisions & vehicles squeezed between Cadillac & Chevrolet, not even Toyota or Honda could manage the complicated menagerie of models that GM claims give it an advantage. GM USA can use perhaps 1 division besides Chevy & Cadillac. but any others are toast. GM better realize this quick and somehow streamline their division / product offerings or it's time to shut out the lights at the Ren Cen.
